Curse

Gabrielus · Aug 16, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Hi,

My first time posting on GWGuru so let me introduce myself. My first character was a mesmer. I've been playing a month or 2 after the release of Guildwars prophecies so you can say I'm pretty experienced with the function of a mesmer. I stopped playing guildwars just before the release of nightfall but don't worry I'm back on track. My question is; is the mesmer still viable in PvP and PvE ? I know I'm going to get flamed by a few people for saying this but ever since the release of Factions the mesmer is going downhill. Let me explain...Beside the typical but effective E-denial build all the other builds are well...not as effective. With Prophecies you could really do some damage and interrupt a lot of skills. In arena you could own people if played properly. But with the new professions the mesmer losts it -how do you call it- Zing. It became hard to counter spells and skills. I mean an interrupt ranger does a far better job than a mesmer. So with the release of nightfall and eye of the north is the mesmer ever going to regain his former glory ?

Peace out.

Painbringer · Aug 16, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Welcome to guru IMO the Mesmer needs some more tweaks. They did a small buff to the Mesmer Illusion line adding some AOE. I have a feeling one of devs has some Mesmer hate and Necro Love or something along that line. It is fun to play but needs some help. Some day little Mesmer boys and girls will running hand and hand with all the other classes.

samcobra · Aug 17, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

How uh... can an interrupt ranger be better than a mesmer at pure caster shutdown? Daze? whoop-de-do, condi removal is extremely prevalent. Ranger interrupts, albeit more spammable, are slower than mes interrupts, so its far easier to hit <1 sec casts on a mesmer. Also, a good mesmer is still the only class that can completely dominate and rape a backline or midline. Have you ever monked while being trained by a dom mes using shame, diversion, power leak, etc? Mesmers have always been goddamn scary. A single good mesmer can do much more for a team with its enchantment removal, its shutdown of defense, its raping of monks, than any other class can. As for the illusion line, there are still some very powerful degen hexes in the illusion line, such as conjure nightmare etc. unfortunately, the failure of the illusion line is tied to the fact that degen caps damage at 200 damage per second on an individual, and even that requiring a decent amount of micro and skill. An ele, on the other hand, can quickly outclass that damagewise to multiple opponents, but that, I feel, is more due to the overpoweredness of the elementalist nuker over the lack of mesmer power. What illusion lacks in damage, though, it often makes up for in terms of shutdown. Being a melee class getting trained by an MoR clumsiness mesmer is possibly the most annoying thing ever. Being a midliner or backliner with migraine and other illusion hexes is utterly painful. These hexes were so strong that they dominated the meta for a long time and had to later be nerfed because of their immense power. Honestly, very few teams without a mesmer actually kill another team, mainly due to the retardedly high defense in the current meta.
All in all, I'd say a mesmer is a pretty damn strong character.

Master Mxyzptlk · Aug 17, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

In PvP mesmers can hold their own. They might not be popular, but a well played one can do wonders, mostly against the core classes they were designed to counter. Factions and Nightfall added new classes and the mesmer didn't quite keep up.

In PvE, mesmer's are the profession equivalent of festival hats. They're fun, they look awesome, and work, but most other headgear will server better. If you're looking to be effective mesmer in PvE, play a necro.

Avarre · Aug 17, 2007, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

How uh... can an interrupt ranger be better than a mesmer at pure caster shutdown? Daze? whoop-de-do, condi removal is extremely prevalent. Ranger interrupts, albeit more spammable, are slower than mes interrupts, so its far easier to hit <1 sec casts on a mesmer.

Not in all cases. Due to the spammability, rangers can make more attempts at anticipating spells, often allowing skills that can't be easily hit by reflex to be hit more often by a ranger. Also, since rangers have the survivability to push up in some cases, they can reduce the range effect on their interrupt speed to some extent. Mesmers tend to be better for catching something being cast, but generally not as effective for anticipative interrupts, simply due to higher recharge times.

Agreed on the higher overall power of locking down a character though.

Quote:

As for the illusion line, there are still some very powerful degen hexes in the illusion line, such as conjure nightmare etc. unfortunately, the failure of the illusion line is tied to the fact that degen caps damage at 200 damage per second on an individual, and even that requiring a decent amount of micro and skill.

I do think you mean 20/s, and I agree on this. Degen usually is not as effective as direct damage of some sorts. Illusion having disruption/damage in the form of migraine/clumsiness is really what helps make it viable in PvP at all, which you did mention later.

Gabrielus · Aug 17, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

To Samcobra; Believe me when I say Mesmer is a weak profession with the release of factions and nightfall. Before the expansions the mesmer was ripping through people. I remember I was being targeted first in arena because of the sheer power that the mesmer had. Casters didn't stand a chance with an anti caster build and the same goes for melee. Rangers have a higher survivability rate and can do damage with shutting down the person. Necros have better degen curses then Mesmers. Necros can degen the life plus the mana of a char at the same time. IMO this is better than just life degen. A net should seriously tweak the mesmer.

My two cents.

Fluffyx · Aug 19, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Mesmers can effectively shut down any class in the game. You talk about how the new professions added have made the Mesmer less effective, yet fit into categories that the Mesmer already has control over, save for the Paragon.

Effectively being able to shut down casters and melee. You should know by now that the point of being a Mesmer is not to do flat out damage like the other classes but to disrupt them from being able to perform their jobs. Mesmers can still do this perfectly fine.

If anything the Mesmer is the strongest profession, being the only class able to counter all of the other classes. Which also makes it the most complicated class to play.

foeslayr · Aug 19, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

I believe no one on GW disputes the fact that playing a mesmer requires to the most extent extreme skill and concentration. However, as to say that mesmers are not crippled is wrong. Playing a mesmer since absolutely forever (1st week?) I've just seen us going into more groups doing less. As skilled as the few of the good mesmers left are, we simply cannot handle the mobs that spawn from ANET's wild imagination. When there are three Ele's we are forced to take on mostly 2, in order to honestly EFFECTIVELY shut them down. We cannot still do "perfectly fine" since we are not able to produce wide AOE (with exception of Kurzick skill [Totally awesome by the way]). Before hand we had smaller mobs, and was able to just go "heh heh, your arse is mine" and "Oh, did you mean to cast that?" But now it's "oh did you mean to...Ow, your friend got me, heh." If Anet can reduce their shear mob quantity I think we should be fine.

We still rock everyone's socks though. Goodness Yes.

haggus71 · Aug 29, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

I just started playing mesmer, and it may compete with my ranger for my favorite character. I find myself getting through missions and zones with greater ease than with any other profession. Like a Paragon, the mesmer requires strategy and the ability to take in, at a glance, the overall situation. You can carry skills that can interrupt/degen every class in the game. You can, without even attacking the monks, make their world hell with all the degen and interrupts flying character-to-character, and leave them open to the sin/warrior.

All the core classes, and even through a lot of factions, were designed primarily with PvP in mind, true. Look at the skills and see they are designed for team play, with each character fulfilling a role. With Nightfall, I think Anet went away from PvE as support for PvE, and started to cater to the mass of players that "LUUUUUUV" that SF build and killing masses of baddies at will. You can't c-space with a mesmer, just as you can't with a GOOD monk.It takes time for most people to learn the in's and out's of a mesmer.

That, and there seems to be a LOT of mesmer hate out there. Flip through the forums and you will find those who seemed to have had their lunch money taken from them by a mesmer in a previous life. "Mesmers suck. No decent primary. I can do that with a Necro. Why shut down when you can kill?" Of course, these same people wonder why DoA or anywhere in HM is so much harder for themselves. Because of the mesmer's job, it might not be as obvious the help it gives. Paragons have the same issues. They aren't there to look good. They make everyone else look good. Monks tend to be the only ones that appreciate both. If you get on a pug, chances are it's because the monk said, "Get the Mesmer." Hell, half the time I H-n-H it, Tahlkora and Dunkoro are yawning.

If EotN is any sign, however, I think you will be seeing a lot more need for the lowly mesmer. With the skills and baddies we've been shown, a mesmer will be needed more than ever.

zling · Sep 17, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

mesmers have limited AoE capabilities, the new sunspear skill(AoE degen, kinda like suffering) and the new faction skill, similar to CoF, more dmg interrupt only target. with these 3 skills you can be somewhat useful in the massive mobs of PvE. however the key is still shutting down enemy monks. even though the mob is huge there wont be too many monks in there, 2-3 max and that's for a huge mob. you shut the monk down and the eles turn the mob into BBQ.

Dean Harper · Sep 17, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

They have been taling about implementing some new skills and options to make Mesmers more viable in PvE, but so far, none of us have seen them.... Memsers ARE however, still prominent in PvP, and do very well in the different arenas. Their AoE capabilities are lacking compared to the other caster profs, but they have thier strong points in that department (Mistrust, Cry of Pain, etc.) Shutdown has become the Mesmer's main focus nowadays, until they implement this "improvement" to our play style. But then again, the may not even implement it till GW2 comes out.

Velo · Sep 17, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mxyzptlk

In PvP mesmers can hold their own. They might not be popular, but a well played one can do wonders, mostly against the core classes they were designed to counter. Factions and Nightfall added new classes and the mesmer didn't quite keep up.

mesmers in pvp are still great, go press B and see high rated guilds using mesmers, they can counter new professions as well, since they use attacks and spells (enchantements , hexes, weapon spell) and both can be countered... the new thing is chants but now mesmers can interrupt chants as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mxyzptlk

In PvE, mesmer's are the profession equivalent of festival hats. They're fun, they look awesome, and work, but most other headgear will server better. If you're looking to be effective mesmer in PvE, play a necro.

indeed... go try signet of illusions with 16 illusion and 3 pve only spells. U can cast pve only spells (wich are more powerful than ordinary spells) like u have more than maximum title related to that skill.
I use: Summon Ruby djinn ---> summon a lvl 21 (!) ruby djinn... with maximum asura title u can summon a lvl 20 djinn
Ether Nightmare---> -8 (maximum is -7) Health degen to all foes in the area, believe me this is a really great damage output, in high lvl areas this skill alone is better than an ele.
Cry of Pain ---> 104 (maximum is 100) unconditional aoe dmg

P A L P H R A M O N D · Sep 17, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I'd say viable in both. Cry of Pain is a good skill, with maxed / near-maxed title, its great. Was playing in FoW the other day with guildies, after aggro was centered, cast Empathy or backfire, then CoP, E-surge and Cry of #$^% in a row (timing Cry of #$^% of course) and dealing a bunch of damage / interrupts pretty quickly. Of course an Ele could do better . . . but it was still good, still effective, and getting those hexes spread eats HM alive for sure. Faster casting and attacking makes alot of mesmer skills amzing in PvE. Unfortunately still not the most power class as far as raw numbers go, but my favorite, and great :-)

Also, mesmer interrupt heroes will wreak havok on PvE AI.